The above photo (thanks to Syd Bird) is a view of the shore with Hilbre Island in the background taken 1897. As you can see there were plenty of sandhills around so presumably the sea wall hadn’t been built? I reckon this photo was taken from where the slipway is now at the bottom of Beach Road. I can never remember what the small sandstone island is called to the right of Hilbre?
Thanks also to Peter Wilson for alerting me to another image (watercolour) of the same shoreline over at the National Maritime Museum site. Not convinced about those rabbits sitting on the rocks admiring the view! Artistic licence?
Syd has also kindly sent the photo below of the old Ellen Gonner Home – Hilbre Court as it is today.
Note that the toilet block on the promenade hadn’t been built and there’s a “turret” window in the corner of the roof of the building that isn’t there any more.
Thanks to Kevin Radford for sending in a couple of photos and a mention about Waters Fish and Chips shop that used to be at the top of Lee Road. Apparently a chap called Alex Waters converted his fish shop into a chippy. Pictured is said man with Kevin’s mum Maureen, Mrs Waters and Daisy Langley (left to right). Was the chip shop in Lee Road or on Market Street? I half wondered if it was were the Sunflower is today – I also remember it as Nicks.
Looking at the photo, there is no island to the right of Hilbre. You might be confused by the bump created by the Lifeboat house. The water to the right of Hilbre is very deep, I was swimming out there in the 50s and a large coaster headed for Mostyn iron works chugged past me, it was about twice as big as a Mersey Ferry.
To the left of Hilbre is Middle Eye and then Little Eye makes up the trio.
The Island off Red Rocks seems to be generally called “Bird Island” today, but going back to the 1950’s my Nan always called it “Periwinkle Island”.
Ahh, silly me, I never thought the rock off Red Rocks was an island, as it is covered by most tides. It is however separated by sand, so I stand corrected, and apologise for teaching gran to do the usual!
(and we still haven’t found out what the triangular brick construction was, which was near Bird Island.)
Interesting to see the apparent difference that the building of such a robust sea wall has made with regard to the erosion patterns and landforms created by the tides – the beach looks to have a much more obvious contour than the modern one I recall (i.e. with the sea wall in place) which if I remember correctly is quite flat. I wonder if the erosion of red rocks has been affected? No doubt there will be someone with the expert knowledge to enlighten us (hoping)?
Leo (ex-Calday? tis you? Hello!)
No expert on coastal erosion, but a couple of thoughts. Bird Island appears – almost – to be connected to the mainland by the top of a rocky ridge in the image, whereas I remember a clear separation of sand of, say, at least 50 yards in the 1980s. The beach, where the sea-wall now exists, has a much greater gradient than is has had since at least the late 1970s, when I first visited.
A friend of mine and I used to go out to the island and cook beans on toast once ‘stranded’ as a sort of adventure during our teens. Thankfully, the island wasn’t ever completely submersed!
Richard
Hi Richard!
Thanks for your post on this subject.
Yes I am a former Calday pupil – not one of the schools more illustrious former students though! I knew a lot of Richards – which one is this? I am on Friends Reunited by the way.
Regarding the picture yes I noticed n=both of the features you have pointed out, I was wondering if they were primarily features of the coastal contour being artificially altered, or perhaps the beach was even more deliberately levelled at the time of the sea wall construction. My guess is that the sea wall profile made a significant difference to the ‘natural’ landform processes and has contributed greatly (if not entirely) to the changes you have mentioned. I lived in Hoylake during most of my formative years and remember that portion of the sea wall from a child’s perspective seeming to be really enormous – if not intimidating – and quite a major feat of engineering. Your Bird Island memories are I’m sure shared by many of us – it could be a very exciting place to be as the tide came in around you! Also the hunting of crabs was a sure thing…
Richard of the Lynch variety.
Are you still in Canada, Leo? I work and spend most of my time in the South East and find this site a good way of staying in touch with West Wirral.
Let’s chat on Friends Reunited?
OK, brilliant! Mad busy at present but give me a few days. Back in the real world then.
I always thought that the stretch of shoreline between Red Rocks and Kings Gap was a bit dismal, even in the busy days of the 50s and 60s it was never full of people. I remember, visitors would only go a short way along it from each end, and at red rocks you had to walk round Bird Island (hmmm…) on the sand as the base of the wall was wet and slippery. I also think that that area of sand at the red rocks end could get cut off by the tide except for a slippery clamber against the wall. If there had been public access from say the Royal Hotel area, the beach may have been a lot more popular.
There was probably not enough parking in Stanley Road to make that bit of beach too popular. I remember that a lady living at the slip end of Stanley Road said that the Suez Crisis (1956) was the worst time for summer parking at that end of the road as a lot of people were looking for recreation closer to home.
As is clear from the photo, the north Wirral coast would naturally be a long line of low dunes built up from blown sand and with a profiled sandy beach. We have very similar coastal dunes all along the East Lothian coast east of Edinburgh and I love walking the wonderful sandy beaches there and thinking this is how the whole coast from Hoylake to Wallasey would once have been.
Changes in the offshore channels and tidal currents and raised beach levels over the last century will have played their part in changing the beach profile – for a start the tide reaches the high water mark much less frequently so there is less wave action to build up a beach profile. However, it is the construction of seawalls that has completely destroyed the natural beach form in Hoylake. Instead of a mobile line of dunes we had by 1909 created a static line of artificial rock cliffs along the whole of Hoylake’s north coast.
This has had fundamental consequences for Hoylake beach.
Firstly, as intended, the walls have removed the natural conduit for blown beach sand to come ashore and create and feed a sand dune ecosystem.
Secondly, the walls are vertical or, from The Royal to Red Rocks, concave in their construction. This changes the wave form. The natural ‘constructive’ wave form built up the sediment so creating a naturally profiled sandy beach leading up to a dune ridge. The effect of the vertical or concave wall design is to produce what are technically called ‘destructive’ waves which remove sediment from the base of the wall and create a flat beach. On Meols Parade it is the same hence a flat beach there too. The reasons that the sand has built up in front of The King’s Gap-North Parade area are (i) that the slipways and the old baths site trap primarily blown sand and some wave accreted sand between them so allowing a more natural beach profile to build up and (ii) that the tide reaches the seawall relatively rarely nowadays so does not remove the sand through ‘destructive’ wave action very often. The wind-blown sand ‘problem’ along North Parade shows why the walls elsewhere were built to discourage sand accretion! Without clearance the promenade would quickly revert to sand dunes.
When the embankment was rebuilt at Dove Point in the ’70s the previous vertical wall was replaced by a new wall sloping in a more natural way. This encouraged a ‘constructive’ wave form and a beautiful profiled sandy beach built up very quickly in place of the previously flat beach. Unfortunately, this threatened to fill in the remnant Hoyle Lake channel and anchorage so steps were taken using engineered groynes to prevent this and therefore we have a flat beach again.
My long held view is that we should aim to naturalise Hoylake beach by taking steps necessary to encourage sand accretion near the seawalls and the re-establishment of sand dunes between the sea wall and the sea. That way we could start to return the beach to its natural form and once again there would be a profiled beach which would gradually ‘move’ seawards as the inevitable long term siltation of the Dee Estuary area continues.
This same process has taken place gradually and naturally in front of the Hoylake links where the sand dunes and wet ‘slacks’ near Red Rocks have developed gradually over the last century. Initial saltings (marshy growth) in front of the older dunes are first shown on the 1927 OS map and would have been similar to those recently removed from the vicinity of the new RNLI station. Some 80+ years later these saltings have been succeeded by fresh water slacks and a low dune ridge fronted by a narrow band of saltings upon which a new line of embryo dunes are establishing themselves as the coast moves slowly seaward.
To recreate this natural ecosystem and beach profile would transform Hoylake for residents and visitors alike. It could be a great national ecosystem restoration project for Hoylake! How about it?
What a wonderfully informative response – thank you Peter! What you say more or less bears out my suspicions that the size and shape of the sea wall had to have a significant effect upon the landform processes. Had the beach been unaltered by man I wonder how much change we would have seen today from the old photographs? I find it an intriguing prospect but I think only hideously complex computer modelling would give us an approximation of the shape of an ‘unaltered’ coastline if it had remained so until today – or perhaps I am wrong?
Thanks, Leo. That would be a very interesting exercise indeed. The main change naturally would have been the rise in beach levels generally which is partly a natural phenomenon due to postglacial siltation but also of course would have been substantially influenced by the canalisation of the upper estuary in 1737 which resulted in the river channel moving from the English shore to the Welsh shore.
All in all a very complex picture but one thing is for sure, beach levels will continue to rise, the tide coming all the way in will become ever less common and keeping an open unvegetated sandy beach as we have now is not an option.
Peter I had forgotten about the River Dee’s corruption (and now I recall what a stark and dismal landscape that ‘straight’ river presents!) and it simply adds to my musings – and I heartily agree that allowing the coast to reassert itself naturally would likely offer a whole new set of opportunities in the Hoylake and West Kirby area. I am not sure if there is still any kind of commercial fishery operating out of the Meols slipway – I remember a handful of boats – but (and I appreciate that this sounds rather clinical) perhaps preserving the environment to support a very small band of fishing boats is a less than appropriate reason for maintaining an artificially flat beach around the coast? I stand to be corrected but what actual advantage is there in maintaining the status quo? Given the fact that the Mersey coast has been totally and irrevocably disrupted, perhaps we ‘owe’ a favour to nature – and who knows what the rewards may be? Fingers crossed for visionary land management!
Sorry , but I DON’T want my Meols house flooded by the tide on a regular basis .
Is that why the beaches have been modified then?
Before the Leasowe embankment and Birkenhead Docks were built, it was not unusual for Wallasey to be cut off by the tide (not that I am an expert on Islands!). the docks are of course built on top of the River Birkett which still comes out by the Tunnel Ventilator where the Lairage was.
In the comments on “Bag of Chips Please” Jackie mentions that the tide would sometimes come up to Mrs Morris’s doorstep in Elm Grove!
I think the derivation of Wallasey is the Viking term for “Foreigners’ Isle” and the word Wales has the same derivation. The isle bit was because Wallasey was an island in terms of being cut off by marsh and sometimes the sea.
The removal of the Wallasey Embankment at Meols in particular or the seawalls in Hoylake would certainly not be a wise option.
However, where the beach levels have risen so much that the sand is infrequently covered by the tide and early stage saltmarsh species are becoming established there is scope to manage the inevitable changes to the beach to deliver the greatest advantage. This means looking at sand management options and using natural processes such as dune creation. The opportunity to manage change needs to be recognised and options identified and discussed. No doubt the local universities would be interested to advise.
To state the obvious, the suffix ‘sey’ does pertain to ‘island’.
The Welsh are in many ways the original Britons, as I understand it, at least as far as such a thing exists. Complex subject, but academic studies have linked ‘Viking’ DNA with that of current Wirraleans! The numbers of ‘by’s is a clue.
I really like the way that this site records daily/weekly/monthly events in Hoylake. I understand how these changes occur but it always surprises me. Still, is there a chance here to build something that will capture the ‘modern history’ of Hoylake (and Meols/West Kirby)? Little things, like the best chippy, trying (unsuccessfuly) to peep into Norwegian Wood, Finnie’s wine bar, Grape Escape, etc.?
I think that there is. Look at the comments above. Needn’t be too intense, but once we all pop our clogs, then it’s pretty much lost for good. Doesn’t matter? Perhaps, but let’s give it a go?
I have just gone on this site. My sister Therese and I used to work in the Lantern in Hoylake in the 60’s and dances at the YMCA, it was grea times. Mrs. Middleton owned it at that time and Geoff and Ken Vallance also worked there. I wonder where Geoff and Ken are at this time. Therese lives in Canada and I live in The Republic of Ireland.
Maureen P. (nee Clarke)
“Waters Fish & Chips shop†was on Market St.
When sold by Alex it was named “Nick’sâ€.
Alex Waters opened the Launderette, Dry Cleaners on the corner of Market St and Lake Rd.
Alex’s Daughter owned “Looking Glass Boutique†of Liverpool and you would often see the van outside the Launderette.
Remember Nick’s, don’t think he had discovered MSG, ‘Chinese’ meals were a bit bland but good fish and chips, good value too!
If you were a m/biker in the 1960’s the place to be was , of course , the Lantern !
With “Mrs M” behind the counter keeping us all well behaved……
Kevin…..did you live in Deneshey Rd when a 10/11 year old? If so, I’m sure I visited yours a couple of times; I can’t remeber if the connection was school or cubs/scouts?
Simon,
Just noticed this…no never lived on Deneshey Rd. Lived at 12 Rudd St, Then 111 Market St, Last lived in Hoylake at 1 Shaw St old Mrs Gordens corner shop
Kevin
Nicks – the best chips in Hoylake! As kids we would occasionally go to ‘The Fryery'(?) just to catch a glimpse of the much-rumoured Norwegian Wood massage parlour – oh the scandalous imaginings of youth!
Nick’s was a huge part of my childhood. There was a ledge along the side wall of the shop which my dad used to lift me onto, and Nick would give you a tiny bag of chips to eat while you were waiting. Not sure any chips since have tasted as good.
Yep Nick was a quiet man who always had a little smile for the youngsters and as you reminded me Lyssa, he would hand out a little bag of chips sometimes. Happy days…
Well, I was born in the 60s, became a biker in the 80s, so don’t remember the Lantern. Where was it? Thought I might have heard of ti but haven’t.
Corner of Lee Rd / Market St
the lantern wasnt on the corner of lee road it was in the middle between Newton Road and Lee Road later named the dorfli the corner of Lee Rd was the chemist Woodfield Cook and the other side was agent outfitters then it was Sampsons the newsagents where it is now a hairdressers.
Corner of Newton Road was a grocer store cum newsagents other side was a wallpaper and paint shop
Zena’s was on the corner of Manor Road inbetween Newton and Manor Road we had Waterworths the greengrocers, Co-op butcher 1 sweet shop run by two sisters, and a grocery store,
I can’t remember what was the shop s betwen Manor Road and Sandringham Avenue apart from Owen and Lammies store and the sweetshop that had a section with a small door that you could lean on and pick your penny sweets.
What a memory! Does anyone know the name of the small shop that was near the top of Fornals Green Lane in Meols? I thought it used to be Whiteley’s but that may not be correct…
The lantern was formerly the Rendezvous, that would at time of the Teddy Boys. There were a number of fights there and on one occasion a girl was injured facially when the window went in.
Between the Lantern and Woodfield Cooke was a dry cleaners which was part of Hoylake Laundry.
In the other direction towards Newton Road was Ronald Tattum’s newsagents. The Misses Connoly ran the sweet shop in the Manor/Newton block, and of course Willmott’s grocery shop and Waterworths green-grocers were there.
Between Manor Road and Sandringham, there was a dairy on the corner, then a hardware shop which sold paraffin (and would you belive, charged lead/acid accumulators for “steam” radios! – I remember seeing people taking their accumulators in there). I can’t remember the name of the hardware shop, but I think Owen and Lammie were opposite the Ship Inn.
I had forgotten all about that! Just over the bridge but before Heron Rd? Right-hand side of the road as you looked down?
Was it a sort of newsagents-cum-general store? Hard to imagine these days! If only these places still existed.. Suppose they would if we all used them and expectations re. income weren’t so high….
I remember the Dorfli doing a 3-course lunch for £1.50, some time ago (maybe 30 years?) but still seems too cheap to be true!
Does anyone remember the name of the restaurant above what used to to be (I think, at least), Barrie’s, the gents’ clothes shop?
The Regency! My brother’s wedding reception was there in 1976 following the wedding at St Luke’s! I was only 16 and was still hung over from the stag night at the Green Lodge the evening before!
Ah, that’s it. Had a very ‘1950s’ feel as I remember.
Between Sandringham and Manor Road, I just remembered there was a sweet shop “Bon Bon” pretty much oposite the red phone box featured in a recent post, and a booze shop, Ashe and Nephew.
Richard – yes the small shop (possible Whiteley’s) was on FG Lane, which was adjacent to the junction of Birkenhead Road and Heron Road. From the age of three to five years my siblings and I would use it as our only source of goodies! I have a very faint recollection of a white-haired old lady being behind the counter…with hindsight it seems to have had a quite rural feel in the late 60s…
Continuing the theme of remembered shops along Market Street opposite the YMCA there was also a well-used launderette, and Farrell’s Newsagents (who would sell cigarettes individually!) near to the bus stop where as a kid I used to wait for the Crosville F34 to West Kirby…if I missed the bus it was a walk down Manor Road to the train station followed by a walk up the hill at the other end! Very interesting to see everyone’s memories and such familiar yet hitherto forgotten names being mentioned!
I remember both the ‘Bon Bon’, between Manor Rd and S’Ham Ave, a chap called Clive used to run it. The Bradford and Bingley Building Society was on the corner of Sandringham, next to Ashe and Nephew’s.
The shop on Fornall’s Green used to sell veg from the market gardens also?
FG lane – Yup I think you must be correct although I moved from Meols to Hoylake in 1970 at the tender age of five (and therefore not very interested in or aware of veg!) and I can’t remember any subsequent visits to it but I am sure the shop had a ‘general store’ kind of feel. The market garden was accessed from The Ridgeway, where we used to live. I think my eldest brother had a part time job there as a young teenager…
It was indeed Whiteley’s, Leo. I spent many a shilling (pocket money if I was lucky) there, then hurtle back home down Fornall’s Green Lane on the bike – and all too often, coming off when trying to skin on the broiken surface, and get home with half of FGL under my skin! Happy days.
The market gardens at the end of the Reidgeway was McDermotts; we used to make dens in the huge stacks of wodoen veg boxes that were in the yards there; bloody dangerous actually! And walking up the edge of the cultivated fields away from the yard took us to more fields, used for cattle etc by a farm I think, where lay….The ‘Figure Eight’ group of ponds, where I cut my angling teeth!
I very much like Richard’s idea of recording our memories of the town – many heads would doubtless produce a far more accurate rendering of the town within living memory. For example I am sure that many of my recollections are somewhat fuzzy and in many cases downright wrong, and one of the strengths of such a dynamic project would be the ability of a group to rectify inaccuracies as they arose and allow for anecdotes to be recorded in the most appropriate and historically accurate context. I’d certainly be interested in taking part.
Ditto – I’m afraid my memory is pretty dodgy these days, but might well be ‘triggered’ by those of others I would hope.
Re:bunnies and artistic licence (n the National Maritime Museum picture)…….
Some old maps show the land around the Royal Hotel as ‘conies’ – rabbits – and the sand dunes were used to rear rabbits for their skins (don’t suppose that’s a particularly demanding task, breeding rabbits) before the land in front of the Royal became first a racecourse and then the golf links: so I suppose it’s possible that there might have been rabbits around when the artist was at work…..
Thanks for all the info above on the coastline – really interesting!
There used to be a little shop in Trinity Road between Sea View and Back Sea View. I don’t recall it ever having a sign over the door with a name, and our family imaginatively only ever referred to it as “The Little Shop”. Anyone remember it? Is it still there – I seem to remember it closing down and re-opening at least once.
I used it a lot for pop and ice cream , it was knocked down and replaced with a new bungalow ( I hope that’s right ! )
I remember it had a low wall around a concrete garden which you had to walk through to get to the shop which was a single storey building. I guess it did well in the summer when the beach was crowded.
Yep my fondest memories of the little shop are of discovering the new ice cream wonder known as a Cornetto as well as there being plenty of penny chews which, if they didn’t pull out any loose teeth, were just the job – until they went up to 2p! Also a very nice, friendly lady who either worked there or owned – smiling all the time, slender lady who seemed very old, so probably younger than I am now…
I remember it; I don’t think it ever did have a name. Used to go there for sweets/ice cream if we were walking along the prom or en route to the pictures at the Classic.
The “Lamp” certainly was the place to meet opposite the “YM” as well most of us would spend Saturday afternoons there, with a drink of mix out of the soft drink machine. Does anyone remember the portly Bobby who used to move us on if there were more than 3 of us together in the evenings, especially when “Flemings†were in Vogue.
I lived opposite the shop in Trinity Road for 20 years and cannot ever remember it having a name, we used to collect all the glass bottles from the shore after hot summer days when the Liverpool visitors had left them behind, if think we used to get 1d each for them, a good example of early recycling and a supplement to my 6d pocket money.
You are all right though, with our fuzzy memories, we should all group together and formulate plans of Market Street and what and who used to be where. My brother used to work at Warbricks the TV shop which was by the school on Market Street, I haven’t seen that mentioned in any posts, does anyone know more about it?
Re : pop bottle refunds . You had to pick your shop carefully , Morehouses to one shop and Full Swing to another . Not all shopkeepers liked taking them ! !
The Misses Connoly with their sweet shop close to Manor Road used to get back far more bottles than they had sold and started to mark the bottles so they only had to refund the deposit on the ones they sold. Manor Road would often queue back to the main road on a very busy Sunday as people tried to get on a train.
The portly Booby was Keith Wenlock AKA
HAPPY HARRY